陳用林六四集會演講全文──附記者會問答 (中英文 附圖 )
 
2005-6-10
 
【人民報消息】(大紀元記者蔣容根據錄音整理並翻譯)

  Thank you, thank you everybody, to give me this opportunity to present myself before the public.
  謝謝,謝謝各位給我這個機會在公眾面前致辭。

  I left the Chinese Consulate a few days ago and seeking political asylum from the Australia Government under the Unite Nation's convention relating to refugee status.
  我幾天前離開了中國領事館,並根據聯合國有關難民條例向澳洲政府尋求政治避難。

  I came here very unsafe and I feel in desperate state because in the past days the experience told me that the Australia Government is cooperating with the Chinese government on my case.
  我是在非常不安全的情況下來到這裏的。我感到非常絕望,因為過去幾天的經歷告訴我,澳洲政府在我的案子上在與中國政府合作。

  I feel very unsafe, because I think it's, maybe not the real purpose of the Australia government, I feel regrettable that some officials just expressed the Australia government rejecting. Maybe it is not the view of the federal government.
  我覺得非常不安全,因為我覺得,也許這不是澳洲政府的真正意思,我感到遺憾,一些官員告訴我澳洲政府拒絕(了我的申請)。也許這不是聯邦政府的觀點。

  And, I…I…Yes, I am too excited.
  我……我……,我太激動了。

  Today I want to say, yes, I left the Chinese consulate for two reasons. One is, today is the 16th anniversary for the pro democracy movement in China. That's a landmark for democracy movement.
  今天我想說,我離開中領館的原因有兩個。一個是,今天是中國六四民主運動十六周年。那是民主運動的一個里程碑。

  I have witnessed the Tiananmen bloody event. Three of my university students were injured in that event, but the Chinese government denied.
  我見證了天安門血腥事件。我有三個大學同學在那次事件中受傷,但是中國政府否認。

  There is actually no human right in China; but the Chinese government denied. There is no human right in China and the Chinese government never confessed they have a human right problem.
  中國事實上沒有人權,但中國政府不承認。中國沒有人權,中國政府從來不承認他們有人權問題。

  Although the economy is good, but the people still have no political freedom, human rights and religious freedom.
  雖然經濟好,但人民仍然沒有政治自由,人權和宗教自由。

  This government, the Chinese Communist Party does not represent the people now, as it claims, that so-called three representatives of Jiang Zemin doctrine.
  這個政府,這個中國共產黨現在不代表人民,它不像江澤民的所謂“三個代表”理論所宣稱的那樣代表人民。

  The current regime is just a power representing those who have already obtained the interest and the power. And even all those people who joined the Communist Party is not for the purpose as they said, serving for the people. It's for their own private, individual purposes.
  現在這個政權只代表那些已經取得利益和權力的人。甚至所有那些加入共產黨的也不是像他們說的那樣,要為人民服務。只不過是為他們個人的利益。

  I believe this undemocratic government will finally be overthrown by the people in China.
  我相信這個不民主的政府最終會被中國人民推翻。

  During the past 16 years the Chinese government has done nothing about the political reform.
  在過去的十六年中,中國政府在政治改革方面無所作為。

  My second reason I left the Chinese consulate is my sympathy over the Chinese government's persecution against the Falun Gong people.
  我離開中領館的第二個原因是我對中國政府迫害的法輪功感到同情。

  I am the consul for political affairs in Chinese Consulate in Sydney. When I came here in 2001 I knew nothing about Falun Gong. And I feel guilty, at the beginning period I followed very strictly of the government's policy of persecuting Falun Gong people here. We monitored the situation about the Falun Gong here, their activities. And even here you'll find there are a lot of Chinese secret agents and the Chinese consulate staff hiding somewhere. They will monitor the activity and report back and they take some measures against the movement of democracy and Falun Gong people.
  我是悉尼中領館的政治事務領事。我2001 年到這裏時對法輪功一無所知。我感到有罪,在開始的時候我非常嚴格的執行政府迫害此地法輪功人員的政策。我們監視這裏法輪功的情況,他們的活動。就在這裏你都會發現許多中國間諜和領館人員,藏在什麼地方。他們將監視這個活動,回去匯報,然後採取辦法對付民運活動和法輪功人員。

   Before I left the Chinese consulate, I have been in this job for almost four years and two months. Gradually, I contacted the Falun Gong people. I found this organization is very special group, is religious group. The Chinese government persecute Falun Gong. That means obviously no religious freedom in China.
  離開中領館前,我在此職位上工作了四年零兩個月。逐漸的,我接觸了法輪功人員。我發現這是一個十分特別的團體,是個宗教團體。中國政府迫害法輪功。這說明中國顯然沒有宗教自由。

  So far as I know, I know the policy of the government, the purpose of the government, they informed me well, as the senior official in the Chinese consulate, the real purpose is to control all the political groups and the religious groups so that they have no chance to threat the government.
  據我所知,我知道政府的政策,政府的目的,就像他們告訴我這個高級官員的那樣,真正的目的是控制所有的政治團體和宗教團體,讓他們沒有機會威脅到政府。

  That is a political manoeuvre, that's only the dictatorship can do.
  這是一個政治花招,只有獨裁者才做得出來的。

  In the past several days, after I left the Chinese Consulate, I have been chasing around by the Chinese secret agents and the consulate staff, and feel very unsafe in Australia.
  在過去的幾天裏,在我離開中領館之後,我被中國間諜和領館人員追蹤,在澳大利亞,我感到非常不安全。

  Today I want to disclose some top confidential things about Chinese kidnapping in overseas area.
  今天,我想透露一些有關中國在海外綁架的絕密事件。

  First is in 2002 there are two pro-democracy activists, one is called Wang Bingzhang, and two of his other friends also engaging in democratic movement. They were kidnapped in Vietnam, and later Mr. Wang was sentenced to life sentence in prison and two friends were set free. That was one case.
  第一起是在2002年,有兩個民運人士,一個叫王炳章,和他兩個參與民運的朋友。他們在越南被綁架。後來王先生被判終身監禁。兩個朋友被釋放。這是一個案例。

  The second case, I was told by the deputy secretary of Xingjiang Autonomous Region. I was here last year to receive him. When we chatted he told me how the Chinese government dealt with the case about the Kirghis in central Asian countries. At that time there was a Chinese diplomat, first secretary called Wang Jinbin was killed in assassination of black gang. He was evolved in the business in Turkistan. There are a lot of nationality people who live in Turkistan.
  第二個案例,新疆自治區的副書記告訴我,去年我接待他,我們聊天的時候他告訴我中國政府是如何處理中亞國家吉爾吉斯的案例的。那時候有一個叫王建冰(音譯)的中國外交官,一等秘書,在當地黑幫的暗殺行動中被殺。他在突厥斯坦工作。突厥斯坦有許多不同民族的人在那裏。

  And the most important thing is how the Chinese government solved the problem. The Chinese government did not believe that Turkistan can assist to solve this problem, so the government sent a special team consisted of secret agent to kidnap those people who involved in killing Wang Jianbin.
  最重要的是中國政府是如何處理這個問題的。中國政府不相信突厥斯坦能幫助解決這個問題,所以(中國)政府派了一個由特務組成的特別小組去把那些暗殺王建冰的人綁架了。

   Actually Wang Jianbing…, the main purpose of the assassination is a case of the black gang in the local society. He was just a by-victim. The main target is a businessman who drove the car for Wang Jianbin.
  事實上,王建冰……那次暗殺行動是當地黑幫的行為,他只是被牽連的。(暗殺的)主要目標是給王建冰開車的,他是個商人。

   So the Chinese government sent secret security agents to kidnap the people who involved in that case back to China and executed them. That's the second case.
  所以,中國政府派出特工人員,把參與(暗殺)的人綁架回中國並處死他們。這是第二個案例。

  The third case I'd like to reveal is the case happened in Australia.
  我想披露的第三個案例發生在澳大利亞。

  There was a vice mayor of Xia Men called Lan Fu, L-A-N, F-U, Lan Fu, vice mayor Lan Fu. He traveled to Australia in 1999…, eh, my memory is in November, 20th of November. And he came to Australia on tourist visa.
  有一個叫藍甫的廈門副市長,他1999年來澳洲旅遊,嗯,我記得是11月20號。他持旅遊簽證來澳洲。

  On 21 of January, the second year, that's 2000, according to news report of that time, he voluntarily, voluntarily returned to China. Actually his visa did not expire at that time and he already launched for further stay in Australia.
  第二年,2000年1月21日,根據當時的新聞報導,他自願,自願返回中國。事實上他的簽證還沒到期,而且他已經提出了續簽申請。

  People will be curious why he voluntarily left Australia. And he submitted himself to the Chinese government and later he was sentenced to death, just in April of 2000, yes, sentenced to death.
  人們會覺得奇怪,為什麼他會自願離開澳洲。他向中國政府自首,後來他被判處死刑,就在2000年4月,是的,被判處死刑。

  The reason behind this event is that the Chinese secret agent kidnapped Mr. Lan Fu's son who was studying in Australia. They kidnapped him.
  這背後的原因是中國特務綁架了當時在澳洲上學的藍甫的兒子。他們綁架了他。

  How do they kidnap him? They first kidnapped Mr. Lan's son, and use a kind of no-poisonous, no poison, to make him unconscious and bring him to a fishing boat and then use the fishing boat to reach the high seas. And then, there was a Chinese cargo ship. I am not sure what cargo ship is that. Maybe the coast ship. The Chinese big cargo ship, waiting on the high seas. They put him to the ship, the Chinese big cargo ship waiting at the high sea. They put him to the ship and sent him back to China, possibly.
  他們怎麼綁架的?他們先綁架藍先生的兒子,用一種無毒的,不是毒藥,把他迷倒,然後帶到一個漁船上,送到公海。那兒有一條中國貨船,在公海等著。他們把他放到船上,放到在公海上等待的中國貨船上。他們把他放上船,送回中國,可能吧。

  I informed this to the Australia Government when the immigration and the foreign affair officials interviewed me on 31 of May.
  5月31日,移民部和外交部官員面試我的時候,我已經把這些告訴澳洲政府了。

  But it seems they don't care. The Australia government, just, they transfer the decision that I was rejected political asylum. No care, even if I said, please, this is important for the Australia public. Australia is not a safe place.
  但看起來他們毫不在意。澳洲政府,只是告訴我我的政治避難申請被拒。(他們)毫不在意,儘管我說,請你們注意,這對澳洲公眾非常重要。澳洲不安全。

  And another case was…, there was a governor for Northern Province, vice governor from the northern province of China who travelled to Australia. And later Chinese public security official kidnapped this official's son and daughter while they travelled to China ,held them in China and to detain them and threat to kill the two and asked the vice governor to return to China.
  另一個案例是,有一個中國北方某省的副省長,他到澳洲旅遊。後來中國公安人員在他的兒子和女兒回中國旅遊時綁架了他們,把他們關押起來,威脅說要殺死他們,讓那個副省長回去。

  But this man was very wise at that time; he refused to return to China. And the public security people had no choice but to choose to kidnap him in Australia, successfully.
  但這人非常聰明。他拒絕回中國。所以公安人員沒有別的辦法,只能把他綁架回去,並且成功了。

  If the Australian government really concerns about the safety of its people and also the tourists in Australia, they should look into the case and check if it's true or not; because my information is actually very reliable. That's from Mr Zhang Jin . That is the Ministry of the Public Security…, he is working in the third department of the Ministry of the Public Security.
  如果澳洲政府真的關注它的人民和遊客在澳洲的安全,他們應該調查這些案件,看它們是不是真的。因為我的消息來源是非常可靠的。那是張京(音譯)先生告訴我的,(張京)在公安部,他在公安部三處工作。

  When he was here to attend an APG conference in Australia, yes, in Australia I received him well and we became friends at that time and he chatted with me. Very reliable information I'd like to disclose.
  他到這裏來開APG會議的時候,在澳洲,我很好地接待了他,我們那時候成了朋友,他跟我聊天。這是我想透露的非常可靠的情報。

  I strongly request for the safety of Australian people and Australian tourists. Australia government should investigate such case.
  我強烈要求保證澳洲人民和遊客的安全。澳洲政府應該調查這樣的案子。

  That's why after I left the Chinese consulate, I was chased around and worried very much about my safety. I worried about they may kidnap me, use the same channel.
  那就是為什麼我離開中領館後,我被追蹤,我非常擔憂我的安全。我擔心他們綁架我,通過同樣的渠道。

  This is a terrorist act. It's an act of unjustified authority. This is a national terrorist. To my…, as far as I know, there are many cases, they have successfully kidnapped people in Australia back to China.
  這是恐怖主義行徑。這是侵犯主權的行徑。這是國家恐怖主義。據我所知,他們從澳洲綁架了很多人回中國。

   I want to ask, if the Australian government is aware of such case, if they are aware, so the government is cooperating with the terrorists; if they are not aware, they should look into the case to prevent these cases from happening again.
  我想問,如果澳洲政府知道這些事情,那他們就是在與恐怖份子合作;如果他們不知道這些事情,那他們就應該調查這些事情,以防止這樣的事件再次發生。

  Yes, above is my speech. Hope I will not have to hide again from today. Hope Australia could immediately provide security to me, to protect my family.
  以上就是我的講話。希望從今天起我不再需要藏匿了。希望澳洲能立即保證我的安全,保護我的家人。

  Yes, I'd like to end my speech now. I can continue to be interviewed.
  是的,我現在就結束我的講話。我可以繼續接受採訪。

  (Below are questions and answers between the journalists and Mr. Chen Yonglin.)
  (以下為記者與陳先生之間的問答)

  Mr. Chen: I left the Chinese consulate a few days ago, seeking political asylum from the Australian government. Now actually, I am now actually in a very dangerous situation. I was chased after by the Chinese consulate and other security agents and may be kidnapped by them; as I said in my speech the Chinese government had done in that way successfully in the past years.
  陳用林:我幾天前離開了中領館,向澳洲政府尋求政治避難。現在,我的處境十分危險。我被領館人員和其他諜報人員追蹤,有可能被他們綁架。就像我在演講中說的那樣,中國政府在過去成功的幹過這樣的事情。

  Q: Why have you decided to defect?
  A: I left the Chinese consulate because, first, for fear of being persecuted in China; as in the past four years and two months time I have been engaged in the job for political affairs here in Sydney. My major job is to monitor and persecute the democracy activists in Australia and Falun Gong practitioners in Australia.
  問:你為什麼要叛逃?
  答:我離開中領館是因為,第一,我害怕在中國被迫害,因為過去的四年零兩個月中我在悉尼擔任政治領事。我主要的工作就是監視和迫害澳洲民運人士和法輪功學員。

  Q: What are your concerns with the Chinese government's treatment towards Falun Gong?
  A: I understand that the Falun Gong people are a group of people believing in religion. Falun Gong is a religion. Chinese government said it's a cult. In Australia as I know, it's hard to tell the difference between a cult and a religion. Even in the history, some traditional religions like Christianity even have some 'cult' behaviour in the history. But they corrected it and finally became a formal good religion.
  問:你對中國政府對法輪功的態度有什麼看法?
  答:我理解,法輪功人員是一群信仰宗教的人。法輪功是一種宗教。中國政府說其是邪教。在澳洲,我知道,邪教和宗教是很難區分的。在歷史上,像基督教這樣的傳統宗教也曾有過“邪教”行為。但後來改變了,最後成了正式的好的宗教。

  Q: What do you fear if you are sent back to China?
  A: Yes, if I am afraid if being sent back to China, certainly I will be persecuted, because in my working for the four years in the consulate, in my work, I have been helping, in some way, the pro-democracy activists and Falun Gong people.
  問:如果你被送回國,你有什麼可害怕的?
  答:如果我被送回中國,我肯定會被迫害,因為在我過去四年在領館的工作中,我以某種方式幫助民運人士和法輪功人員。

  Q: Do you feel disappointed that the Australia government seems don't want you as a political asylum?
  A: So far I haven't got the final, the formal decision from the Australia government as Australia government allowed to me to present a protection visa application. I am still waiting for response from the government.
  問:你對澳洲政府拒絕接受你為一名政治避難者而感到失望嗎?
  答:到現在為止我還沒有得到最後的正式答覆。澳洲政府允許我申請保護簽證。我還在等待政府的回應。

  Q: When do you expect to get a response?
  A: I hope to get a response immediately from the foreign affairs or the immigration department.
  問:你何時能得到回應?
  答:我希望能立即從外交部和移民部得到答覆。

  Q: From what you know, how Chinese Consulate managed to manipulate the local Chinese media and also other media because a lot of articles could not be published in local media and a lot of articles given by the Chinese consulate were be published even though they were not the truth?
  A: The media here, I believe, (because this) is a democratic country, freedom of expression, and can decide by themselves what to publish and what not to publish at their own will. And I believe there are substantial influence from the Chinese consulate and embassy here over the media.
  問:從你了解的情況,中國領館是如何控制當地中文媒體,和其它媒體的?因為很多文章都不許發表,而很多中領館提供的文章卻必須發表,儘管它們不是真的?
  答:這裏的媒體,我相信,這是民主國家,有言論自由,能自己決定發不發表什麼。我相信中國使領館對這裏的媒體有相當程度的影響。

  Q: How many Chinese secret agents are there in Australia? Are there a lot, or a few?
  A: I believe a lot, a thousand possibly. As we try to find someone or find some situation we can easily assess that.
  問:在澳洲有多少中國特務?許多?還是幾個?
  答:我相信有許多,可能有一千多。如果我們試圖找到一些人,或一些事情,我們很容易就對此做出評估。

  Q: Are you prepared to name these secret agents to Australian government?
  A: Because I am a consul for political affairs, they haven't contacted me, at this stage, contact me directly. Actually in the consulate and embassy there are some people responsible for this matter, keep their secret…
  問:你準備向澳洲政府提交特務名單嗎?
  答:因為我是政治事務領事,他們不與我聯繫,在現在的情況下,不與我直接聯繫。事實上領事館和大使館都有專人負責這種事務,保持他們的秘密……

  Q: How many kidnaps do you know of?
  A: Yes, each year they have kidnapped, a good number, I am not sure about that. The case I have referred just now, like the one called Lan Fu, the vice mayor of Xia Men. He 'voluntarily' returned to China. His son was kidnapped through the agent and sent to a fishing boat and reached the high sea close to Australia. And then put him in a Chinese cargo ship. He was kidnapped, Lan Fu's son, I am not sure of his exact name.
  問:你知道多少起綁架事件?
  答:是的,每年都有綁架事件,不少。我不確定有多少。我剛才提到的案子,廈門副市長藍甫。他“自願”回到中國。他的兒子被特務綁架,送到漁船上,然後到澳大利亞附近的公海。然後把他放到一艘中國貨船上。他被綁架了,藍甫的兒子。我不知道他具體叫什麼名字。

  Q: Regarding to your personal safety, what do you need from the Australian government?
  A: I need, my basic safety could be guaranteed. That's the international obligation of Australia government under the UN convention.
  問:對於你的個人安全,你需要澳洲政府做什麼?
  答:我需要我的基本安全能夠得到保障。根據聯合國條約,澳大利亞有這個國際義務。

  Q: Do you fear for your life and that of your family at the moment?
  A: Yes, I am very frightened, actually.
  問:你現在對你和你家人的生命安全感到擔心嗎?
  答:是的,我非常害怕。

  Q: As soon as you leave this rally you are going to hide again?
  A: Yes, I will have to live together with someone so that I can feel safer.
  問:你一離開這個集會就又要藏起來嗎?
  答:是的,我不得不與別人住在一起,以便感覺安全一點。

  Q: Do you think it is easy for them to find you now, that you've come out?
  A: Very easy.
  問:你覺得你現在已經現身了,他們很容易就能找到你嗎?
  答:非常容易。

  Q: Easy for the Chinese government to find you?
   A: Yes, because they monitor people, use phones. All these monitored, I believe.
  問:你說中國政府很容易找到你?
  答:是的,因為他們監視人們,用電話。所以這些都被監視著,我相信。

  Q: So you said your phone is monitored?
  A: Yes, especially mobile phone, I think.
  問:你說你的電話被監聽?
  答:是的,特別是移動電話,我想。

  Q: Mr. Chen, have you heard about the Falun Gong students filing a lawsuit against Jiang Zeming in South Africa last year?
  Q: I haven't heard about that case, sorry.
  問:陳先生,你聽說過去年法輪功學員在南非起訴江澤民的案件嗎?
  答:沒有,對不起。

  Q: How does the Chinese consulate influence the Chinese community?
  A: They attended many occasions of Chinese community, yes, yes.
  問:中國領館是如何影響華人社區的?
  答:他們參加很多活動,是的,是的。

   Q: How is your family doing? How do feel about your decision?
  A: Yes, they feel very distressed and they have no choice, have to support me in some way to gain some kind of safety. They worried about my safety and also themselves.
  問:你的家人怎麼樣?她們對你的決定怎樣想?
  答:是的,她們感到非常壓抑。但她們沒有選擇。她們只能支持我,以獲得某種程度的安全。她們為我和她們自己的安全擔心。

  Q: What will the result be if you are sent back to China?
  A: The result will be, maybe life sentence or executed, as I disclosed just now, disclosed some top confidential files.
  問:如果你被送回國,結果會怎樣?
  答:結果,無期徒刑或者死刑,因為我剛才披露了絕對的機密。

  Q: Are you afraid that your family in China will be threatened as well?
  A: I am afraid that in someway, their life will be confined, be monitored by the public security.
  問:你害不害怕你在中國的家人受到威脅?
  答:恐怕他們的生活在某種程度會受到限制,被公安監視。

  Q: Could you say that you were regarded as a potential threat and someone they want to persecute before you left the Chinese consulate? Is that right?
  A: Yes, because I have offered some help to the pro-democracy activists and Falun Gong practitioners in some way.
  問:你能否說你離開中領館前就被視為一個潛在的威脅,而且是一個他們想迫害的對象?
  答:是的,因為我以某種方式幫助過民運人士和法輪功學員。

  Q: So have they threatened to arrest you before this?
  A: They have been searching for me and chased me. And when I rent house in Gosford, I spotted them and I had to leave immediately.
  問:那他們在此之前威脅過要抓捕你嗎?
  答:他們在尋找、追蹤我。我在高斯福區租房住的時候,發現了他們,只能馬上離開。

  Q: How did you escape them?
  A: I escaped by the public transport, yes, take the train.
  問:你怎麼逃脫的?
  答:我乘公共交通車跑掉的,是的,我乘火車。

  Q: So you jumped on the train to escape them?
  A: Yes, this is a narrow escape. When I saw them I left immediately.
  問:你跳上火車逃開了?
  答:是的,差一點沒逃了。我一看見他們馬上離開了。

  Q: Were they running after you?
  A: I don't know exactly. Of course hereby there might be a lot of agents nearby.
  This time if I return to my place I believe they will closely follow me. It will be very hard to get rid of them and even I want to get rid of them, because they have thousands of agents in Australia.
  問:他們在你後面跑(著追你)嗎?
  答:我不太清楚。當然就在這裏說不定都有很多特務。這次我回去後我相信他們會緊緊地追蹤我。儘管我想擺脫他們,也很難擺脫,因為澳洲有幾千名特務。

  Q: Some members of the Chinese community are protecting you now, are they?
  A: No, not yet, I have a friend here, just met here, supporting democracy, an Australia citizen.
  問:一些華人社區的人現在在保護你,對嗎?
  答:沒有,還沒有。我在這裏有個朋友,剛剛遇到他的,他支持民主,是澳洲公民。

  Q: You have been hiding on your own until now, have you?
  A: Yes, until now, yes. So I have to seek kind of safety.
  問:你一直到現在為止都是一個人藏著的,對嗎?
  答:是的,直到現在。所以我必須尋求一種安全。

  Q: Which university were you in at the Tiananmen Massacre time?
  A: Foreign Affairs University.
  問:天安門大屠殺時你在哪所學校上學?
  答:外交學院。

  Q: Will you be giving details of the secret agents to the Australia government in exchange for a protection? What information will you offer the Australia government for them to protect you?
  A: I haven't got a response from the Australian government yet. I am waiting for a response.
  問:你會向澳洲政府提供特務的名單作為獲得保護的交換條件嗎?你有什麼樣的情報給澳洲政府?
  答:我還沒有得到澳洲政府的答覆。我在等答覆。

  Q: But you are open to offer information?
  A: Yes, yes, everything I know.
  問:但是你會提供情報的,對嗎?
  答:是的,是的,(我會提供)我知道的一切。

 
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